Honest Christian Conversations
A weekly podcast dealing with cultural and spiritual issues within the Christian faith.
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Honest Christian Conversations
The Truth Behind Your Favorite Worship Tunes
Have you ever questioned the lyrics of your favorite worship songs or the teachings behind them? Discover the unsettling truths and theological inaccuracies in contemporary worship music that you may not have noticed before. Join us as we critically examine popular groups like Elevation, Hillsong, Jesus Culture, and Bethel, illuminating the hidden flaws and false teachings that many believers unknowingly embrace. We delve into the insights of trusted voices like Alan Parr, Justin Peters, Costi Hinn, and Dawn Hill, who thoroughly analyze problematic lyrics and the concerning doctrines of influential figures like Steven Furtick and Bill Johnson.
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Have you ever watched the Wizard of Oz? It's not my favorite Oz movie I prefer Return to Oz but I wanted to remind you of a specific scene from the original film. Dorothy the Tin man and the Scarecrow are walking into the spooky forest and talking about what scary things could be inside. As they walk, they start chanting lions and tigers and bears oh my. That quote is exactly what went through my mind in 2020 when I started down this journey of discerning biblical and unbiblical worship music, bethel, hillsong and Elevation oh my, hillsong and Elevation. Oh my. I mentioned at the start of this season that 2020 was my awakening to all the flaws and false teachings in the church. I also told you about my struggles with all the information I received. It was painful to realize that my whole upbringing and the Christian things I trusted were not as safe as I thought. I was heartbroken and anxious, unsure who could be trusted and who was a wolf in sheep's clothing.
Ana Murby :If you are new to the podcast, welcome. I'm glad you're here. Make sure you check out the first two episodes from season two so you will have a better understanding of today's episode, also for everyone listening. If you like this episode and the podcast, do me a favor and leave a review wherever you're listening or, if your platform doesn't allow that, go to my website and leave one there. I appreciate all the feedback and encouragement I get from my listeners. It makes my day and helps me to make the podcast better for you. So, when the episode is over, please take a few minutes and leave a review.
Ana Murby :Before we jump into the meat of today's episode, I want you to know that it took me several days to re-watch all the YouTube videos and podcasts I originally found between the years 2020 and 2024. The information I will share with you is from trusted Christian sources I first found back in 2020 and still follow today. This was a long process, but I wanted to have all my sources aligned. That way, you know, you could trust what I have to say and if you didn't agree with me, then I could point you in the direction of solid sources so you could do your own digging. Today, I will be discussing Elevation, hillsong, jesus Culture and Bethel, with the intent of opening your eyes to the problematic lyrics within some of their music. I am aware that I am going to step on some toes with what I am saying, but I do this from a place of love and concern for all who could be led astray by false teachings. This subject isn't easy for me to talk about because I don't like confrontation or making waves. That's why it's taken me so long to come out and do this episode. But as a follower of Christ, I am called to be a disciple. So here we go. Elevation Alan Parr's YouTube channel, the Beat with Alan Parr, has a video I watched called quote. The popular Elevation song is not recommended. End quote.
Ana Murby :We will start with Elevation worship song called Praise. I have never heard it myself because I stopped listening to them back in 2020, but Alan Parr does share the problematic lyrics in this video. Here are the lyrics verbatim Quote because praise is the waters my enemies drowned in. End quote. What does this mean? Does anyone have an answer for me? Well, here's Alan Parr's rebuttal to these lyrics Quote. Here's Alan Parr's rebuttal to these lyrics Quote when in the Bible book, chapter and verse, does it say we can control demons with our praise? We praise God for who he is and what he has done, not what we can get from him. End quote. He mentions another verse of this song Quote Because praise is a weapon. It's more than a sound. He mentions another verse of this song quote Cause praise is a weapon. It's more than a sound. End quote. Alan Parr says quote Nowhere in the Bible is our praise considered a weapon. End quote. The next lyric he shares is quote Cause my praise is the shout that brings Jericho down. End quote. Alan Parr asks the question what are we even talking about here? And suggests maybe the writer of the song was referring to the story of the walls of Jericho in the Bible. But it's pretty unclear if that is what the song is referring to or not.
Ana Murby :Alan Parr is very fair in his assessment of elevation. He doesn't come out and condemn them. He makes it known a few times in this video. Quote I'm going on record saying I love this song, but it's not good enough for a worship song to be just almost theologically accurate. End quote. In other words, you wouldn't eat a delicious brownie with just a little poison in it. So why are you going to sing a song that is only a little theologically unsound? A little theologically unsound is far worse than a little poison, because the poison may kill your body, but the little theologically unsound lyrics will send your soul to eternal damnation. Alan Parr's final takeaway from this video is, quote to be discerning as a believer when picking a song to listen to for worship. Check out the lyrics, end quote.
Ana Murby :The Lovesick Scribe podcast with Dawn Hill has an episode I listen to called quote. He is not jealous for me. End quote. In this episode she briefly talks about Elevation Worship and some concerns she has. There is a concern I have with this particular elevation worship and the concern is that I have heard the senior leader, minister on a couple of occasions say things that were contrary to scripture. She mentions that Stephen Furtick said Jesus changed forms, which she says alludes to modalism. Here is what she quotes from Stephen Furtick Quote he didn't leave them, he just changed forms. End quote. Dawn says this means that he changed into the Holy Spirit. She also shares other things he has done, like quoting richard rohr, a universalist, and if you want to know more about that topic, check out her full episode. It'll be in the show notes link. Stephen ferdick helps to write some of elevation worship's music, so if he has funky views, it's important to sniff those out.
Ana Murby :Jesus Culture and Hillsong. We will stay with the Lovesick Scribe podcast with Dawn Hill for now, because she discusses Jesus Culture and Hillsong in this same he Is Not Jealous For Me episode. She starts the whole episode by speaking a blurb from her blog post about the same subject matter. I have a quote from the beginning of that intro Quote. Few things breed contention more quickly than touching a beloved worship song that is a personal favorite. End quote. She's right. I know when I first went on this unexpected journey, all my favorite worship songs burst into flames before my very eyes and I didn't like it at all. I have grown to love new, biblically sound songs in their place, though.
Ana Murby :She goes on to say, quote we must come to the sobering truth that much has become more experiential and less revered. The lyrics are moving further away from sound biblical truth and we have placed ourselves at the center while God pines over us and we have no understanding of the jealousy of God. End quote. She mentions that God isn't jealous for us like we think of. He isn't our languishing boyfriend, as she calls it, in desperate need of us. She finishes her opening statement with quote he is God Almighty and he is holy, end quote. That is a powerful statement of truth and we all need to reflect on that before singing worship music or doing anything in our lives.
Ana Murby :I mentioned in a previous episode about how we get caught up in the moment and feeling of a song that we don't listen to what we are singing. If we did, perhaps we wouldn't sing as many songs as we do, and I'm not just talking about Christian music either. She poses some good questions to ask yourself when discerning solid biblical worship. Number one is it biblical? And number two is it ministering to God or is this song just ministering to me? After this she goes into her subject matter, which is the Jesus Culture Kim Walker Smith song. He Loves Us. I used to listen to this song and sing it at church too, but it was never one of my favorites. The sloppy, wet kiss and the unforeseen kiss line always got me. Dawn sheds some new light on the lyrics. That should give us pause the next time we hear the song. She shares the first line of the song quote he is jealous for me end quote and then expands her commentary on it with Bible verses. So if you want to know more, you should listen to the full episode.
Ana Murby :It was too long of a segment for me to include here. Quote when it becomes us at the focus of the song, then we are in idolatry, we are committing idolatry, we are causing self-worship to happen, self-praise, and we'll attribute a little bit of it to God. But really, if we are honest, when we look at the songs we sing, we'll notice how self-centered they are. They are much more about us and less about God. End quote. That's from Don Hill. This is a hard truth pill to swallow, isn't it? When she said this in her podcast, I was floored. It's true, be honest with yourself and truly listen to some of your favorite worship songs. They are more me-centered than Christ-centered, right? How did I not see this before? She showed the difference between self-centered worship songs and God-centered worship songs. I loved this part because it was eye-opening for me. Worship songs I loved this part because it was eye-opening for me.
Ana Murby :It was a long segment as well, so I did not include the full list here, but I will mention one song and it's from Hillsong. The song is a beloved favorite among the Christian community and perhaps a personal favorite of yours. It's the song, so Will I a hundred billion times. Before I get into this one, I will be fair and say that Hillsong in the past has had many good, biblically sound songs. This one just misses the mark. I never cared for the song, but I didn't like the song and thought it was just because it was way overused at our church. Perhaps the Holy Spirit was helping me to discern.
Ana Murby :Here is the line in the second verse, followed by her thoughts on it. Quote all creation evolved in pursuit of God. End quote. It's alluding to evolution and this goes against creation. I'm not sure what the artist meant by it, but evolve is a tricky word. That's the end of Dawn's quote from her podcast. She goes on to talk about how it's quote problematic and that if you feel the need to skip singing over certain lyrics of a worship song because they are iffy, then that's a problem. End quote. Here is where it got exciting for me. She mentions the song Reckless Love by Corey Asbury.
Ana Murby :This song, you guys, has irritated me since the moment it came on the scene and the irritation only increases each time I hear it and learn more about false theologies. Our God is not reckless and everything he does is on purpose and for a purpose. He is not foolish, careless or impulsive, and to sing that he is any of these things feels like a blasphemy. Okay, glad I got that off my chest. Finally, now we move on to Bethel, the biggest proponent of unbiblically sound music, and we will start with an Alan Parr video called quote. This Bethel Worship Song Should Be Avoided by All Christians. End quote. The title sounds severe, so let's dive in and see why.
Ana Murby :Alan Parr starts his video by sharing the number one music worship music principle. Worship music principle Worship songs are just as important as sermons. This is true because our lives are supposed to reflect Christ always. We are called to worship with voices, yes, but also with our bodies and souls, with our very existence as well. The song he references in this video is called Champion. Here are the troublesome lyrics, quote when I open my mouth, miracles start breaking out. End quote. This is not giving God the glory. This is a man-centered theology. Only God has the power to speak things into existence. That's what makes him god. We were made in the likeness of god, not created to be a god. Another video alan parr has is called quote.
Ana Murby :These popular worship songs contain false theology. End quote. He starts by saying that worship music must be rooted in truth and that it's impossible to worship God when your worship music is untrue. He says we are singing lies to God Ouch. Next he gives some examples of lyrics for the songs used to defend his claims.
Ana Murby :Let's take a look at those now. Too Good Not To Believe, by Bethel, quote we've seen cancer disappear. We've seen broken bodies healed. Don't you tell me he can't do it. We've seen real life resurrection. We've seen mental health restored. Don't you tell me he can't do it. End quote. Now let me say I do believe that God can do miracles and healings if he wants to. He is God and he does as he pleases when he wants to. However, I do not believe that the believer has these same gifts. Call me a cessationist if you want to. I don't take that as an insult, but this is what I believe.
Ana Murby :With that said, alan Parr gives four takeaways after reading these lyrics. Number one we need to be careful, because most of these places are word of faith and are trying to instill their values in you through their songs, and are trying to instill their values in you through their songs. Number two worship should be God-centered, but much of worship music is man-centered. Number three the majority of the music we listen to at home and church needs to remember who God is. And number four worship should be spirit-led. Before we get into some other people's takes. I have one more from Alan Parr. This video is called quote Bethel, hillsong and Elevation. Should we listen to them? End quote.
Ana Murby :Alan Parr says quote some of these teachings at these churches are promoting heresy. End quote. He calls out Bethel's lead pastor, bill Johnson, specifically as having quote. He then backs this claim up with evidence straight from a video interview Bill Johnson has on their church website. Here is the quote from Bill Johnson Quote. Here is the quote from Bill Johnson Quote Jesus performed miracles, wonders and signs as a man in right relationship to God, not as God.
Ana Murby :If he performed miracles because he was God, then they would be unattainable for us, but if he did them as a man, I am responsible for pursuing his lifestyle. End quote. Did you catch the heresy? Alan Parr asks, after quoting Bill Johnson. He then sums up Bill Johnson's false theology like this Quote basically, when Jesus did miracles, he did them as a man, not God, so he could show you and I what a man that's in a right relationship with God is able to do. End quote. This is wrong and puts Jesus in a box he has no business being in If Jesus was only a man when he was on the earth and wasn't God, then how could he be the perfect, spotless lamb we needed to break the chains of sin and death while on the cross? I get so irritated when God is misrepresented.
Ana Murby :Alan Parr then reminds those listening that Hillsong, bethel, jesus Culture and Elevation all promote the prosperity gospel. For those of you who don't know what that is, the prosperity gospel is the idea that it's always God's will for us to be healthy and wealthy. This, my friends, is not accurate theology and I will be revisiting this doctrine in another season, so make sure you stay tuned for that. He then moves on and raises another point to back his claim that these churches promote false teachings. Another point to back his claim that these churches promote false teachings he tells us that some of the practices at Bethel are unbiblical and he goes into a little detail about a few of them, starting with grave soaking, quote. It's the idea that if you are a believer, you should go to the graves of prominent Bible teachers and leaders who are anointed and literally physically lay on the dead person's grave, and by doing so you will be able to soak up the anointing of the dead leader and get some of that transferred to you. End quote. I don't know about you, but that sounds very mystical and unbiblical to me.
Ana Murby :Which brings us to the next Bethel practice. He discusses the Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry. The name sounds like something from Harry Potter. Alan Parr explains a little of what they teach at this quote-unquote school Quote of what they teach at this quote-unquote school Quote they teach you how to do miracles and all the supernatural things of that nature, and one example of this is called prophecy on demand. It's the idea that people can set appointments with you and whenever they want a word of prophecy spoken over their lives, all they have to do is set an appointment with you and then you have the ability, if you have gone to the school, to basically, on demand, speak a word of prophecy for that person's life End quote. He also references their healings on demand practice, where they believe that if you are sick, all they have to do is pray over you and you can get healed right away, in that very moment. Or if someone is dead, they believe that since God could raise the dead, they also have that power. Friends, these are serious flaws with basic biblical theology.
Ana Murby :Let's move on to our next source for why these bands and their theology could be leading you down a path to the wrong God. Our next source is from Gospel Partners Media and Wrecked Podcast. They have a video on YouTube called quote. Justin Peters Exposes Truth About Hillsong and Bethel music. End quote.
Ana Murby :Justin Peters is a phenomenal resource for learning more about false teachers and doctrines. He takes the time to research and investigate deeply into this subject, so if this is something you want to dive deeper into, I suggest you check out his channel on YouTube. In this video, justin Peters is asked why he believes people should stay away from Bethel and Hillsong music. Quote. They use their music as their primary tool of evangelism. Their goal is to enlarge their reach and to bring people into their church. They use their music as a hook to bring unsuspecting people into their false theology. These churches are wolves end quote. That's a pretty serious charge, right? He has a lot of information and sources to back this claim up, so I encourage you to check this 13-minute video out and also go on to his YouTube channel if you want to know more.
Ana Murby :Justin Peters gives a warning to people that Bethel comes with NAR teachings. Nar stands for New Apostolic Reformation. They also practice word of faith, health and wealth, prosperity, gospel theologies rooted in metaphysical cults like Christian science, new Age and Gnosticism. They have very aberrant views of God and man. Aberrant means departs from accepted standards, standards he mentions. They teach that we are all little gods, the idea of positive confessions and that we can speak things into existence.
Ana Murby :Justin Peters refers to a story out of Bethel Church back about four years ago, the story of Baby Olive. Not sure if you have heard about this or not, but it was a huge news story about a two-year-old who passed away. Her parents, who are part of the church worship team, and the church did a week-long service where they prayed for resurrection. I'm going to link the video on this from one of the sources I trust and they can give you more information on that. But back to Justin Peters and his reference to this situation. He says quote when Olive died, the church spent a week trying to raise her from the dead. They weren't asking God to raise Olive, they were commanding her to come out of the grave. End quote.
Ana Murby :Now, at this point in the video, the facilitator asked Justin Peters if he has any examples of songs from these churches that are unbiblically sound. So Justin Peters shares two from Bethel worship. The first one is called Closer. Here are the lyrics. Quote your love has ravished my heart and taken me over, and all I want is to be with you forever, with you forever. So pull me a little closer, take me a little deeper. I want to know your heart. Take me a little deeper. I want to know your heart, because your love is so much sweeter than anything I have ever tasted. I want to know your heart. I don't know about you, but this song sounds awkward and I don't feel comfortable singing it to my Heavenly Father.
Ana Murby :There's been a running joke since I was in high school that if you replace Jesus' name with your boyfriend's name, you can turn any worship song into a love song, and this song proves that joke easily. Here's another example he gives. The song is called we Dance, also by Bethel. Quote you steady me slow and sweet. We sway. Take the lead and I will follow. Finally, ready now to close my eyes and just believe that you won't lead me where you don't go. When you, when my faith gets tired and my hope seems lost, you spin me round and round and remind me of that song, the one you. Again, you steal my heart again and I breathe you in like I've never breathed till now. End quote.
Ana Murby :Again, it's a little unsettling to sing this kind of love song to your heavenly father, don't you think? I used to wonder why pastors said men didn't like singing at church. Now I get it. As a man, I wouldn't want to sing these songs. As a woman, I don't feel comfortable singing these songs. They are too romantic and I am supposed to praise him, not date him.
Ana Murby :After these two examples, justin Peters reminds us that every time a church sings any of the music from these churches in their worship set, the church pays a royalty fee to the group who made the song. He makes a rather outlandish comparison on this subject to illustrate his point about false doctrines in music, which is guaranteed to make some of you angry. But bear with me till the end of the quote Quote. If Planned Parenthood decided to make Christian music that passes the doctrinal smell test, would you sing it, knowing that money goes back into Planned Parenthood every time you sing it? I will submit to you that singing Bethel and Hillsong when you are sending money to these churches is worse. End quote to these churches is worse. End quote. I know that stings, but if you can get away from the visceral reaction to what he is saying. First, I think you can agree that he has a point. It goes back to something I said earlier about the poisoned brownie. After he gives the scathing comment, the host plays devil's advocate and poses a comment to Justin Peters that his critics might say quote you're just being too critical, we're just singing songs. Lighten up. End quote.
Ana Murby :Justin Peters' rebuttal comes with a verse, psalms 138, 2. Quote. God holds his name and his words above all things. Quote. He also adds when we do the musical aspect of worship, we have an audience of one. We have one person to please and that is God. He takes worship very seriously. He is thrice holy and I assure you God is not honored by worship that is from false churches that blasphemes his name. End quote. There's more to the quote, but you can check out the whole video if you want the full enchilada.
Ana Murby :Okay, now we move on to Redeemer Church in Arizona and their podcast called Redeeming Truth. They have an episode called quote why we Don't Sing Bethel Music in Our Church. End quote. It's a short but sweet episode about the church's convictions on this subject. So if what I have to say sounds interesting to you, check out the link for the episode. This episode featured Kosti Hinn, dale Thackrah and Kyle Swanson.
Ana Murby :Kosti starts by saying quote Passion can be essential but it's not always reliable. End quote. His co-host, kyle Swanson, comes in and adds this quote truth is most important. If we are worshiping the wrong Jesus, we're outside the grace of God. So we have to be focused on truth. And if we are passionate, we have to be passionate about the truth. Dale Thackra comes in after and says quote we get a lot of pushback on this. You are judging motives, but we don't need to judge motives. We are judging doctrine. We are judging what it is. I know if you are a big fan of these bands, you might be feeling deflated and annoyed right now, but I want to encourage you.
Ana Murby :It has been agreed upon with all my sources and also myself, that some of Bethel, hillsong and Elevation's music is doctrinally sound. It has catchy beats and makes us feel good. However, don't let that get you carried away to where you check your discernment at the door. Kosti Hinn in this video says Even a broken clock is right twice a day. The devil ain't coming to deceive people with all lies, doesn't he use some truth? End quote.
Ana Murby :Costi also poses a question on behalf of some people who push back on their no Bethel stance. Quote why do you sing hymns where the people who wrote them had doctrines that weren't always biblically sound? End quote. His answer to this question was good but too long for me to showcase on here, but I will mention one piece of his response because it was insightful and could be helpful for everyone listening now. We aren't commanding this of other churches or other people. These are our convictions. Our convictions don't need to be your commands. However, we should all fairly and clearly understand why people have the positions they do. End quote.
Ana Murby :One last quote from the Redeeming Truth podcast comes from Dale Thackara Quote. This is such an important issue. Jesus talks about it in his first sermon, matthew 7. Beware of false prophets who come to you. In End quote. All we are doing is saying listen to what Jesus is saying. End quote. Now that you have heard evidence for the tough reality that our worship music isn't as safe as you may have believed, I hope you don't feel discouraged for too long, like I did, but rather I hope you feel empowered, knowing that the scales are off your eyes and your discernment meter is firing on all cylinders.
Ana Murby :Let's recap a little of what we discussed in the episode today. Our lives are supposed to reflect Christ always. We are called to worship God with our voices, but also with our very existence. Worship music should be God-centered, not man-centered. Is it right to sing worship songs in your church when they aren't 100% biblically sound? Does that honor God? Remember the quote from Kosti Hinn? Quote even a broken clock is right twice Quote. End quote. And number four If Jesus told us to beware of false prophets, then we should listen and obey. Don't forget James 4.17,.
Ana Murby :If you know what you ought to do and don't do it, you are sinning. Armed with this new information, it's time to take the next step, and that will look different for each individual and or church group. Some of you may choose to do what I have chosen to do, which is stay away from these worship bands altogether, but maybe some of you might not be ready for that step and may choose to stop listening to the specific songs brought up in today's episode instead. Both ideas are fine and maybe in time the Holy Spirit will continue to help you discern biblically and unbiblically sound music as you go along your life, as has been the case with me. Whichever way you choose to swing, just remember to be discerning, not legalistic or passive. Our faith and the way we worship matters to God and determines our lifestyle choices. Be vigilant always in discerning truth from deception, not just in music but your daily life.
Ana Murby :I would like to send out a strong caution to worship leaders as well. Make sure you are vigilant when picking music for your congregation to sing. You never know who is in the audience, so don't knowingly lead people astray just because you like the songs. Thank you for listening. Make sure you share this episode with someone you know who would benefit from hearing this. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode and, while you are there, leave a review. That way, the podcast can go up in the ranks and be shared with many others who could benefit from the podcast content. If you want to go deeper, the links to everything referenced in today's show will be available in the show notes, along with my website.
Ana Murby :Should you have any questions, comments or prayer requests, I'm going to pray us out and say goodbye, lord God, thank you so much for this day. Thank you for everyone who's listening right now. I pray, heavenly Father, that you would be with each and every one of their hearts. Let them be softened, let their ears be open to hear what you have said today, and I pray that they would be able to learn how to discern right from wrong, theologies within their music and within whatever they choose to do in regards to reading, books, movies, all those things. We need discernment all the time, through every area of our life, because we are here on this earth to glorify you. I pray that people would not let their pride and their feelings get in the way of standing firm in truth. Lord Jesus, in your name, I pray amen. God bless you. Have a good week, bye.