Is the Prosperity Gospel Worth the Investment?

Desiree Taylor returns to share her powerful personal journey from the allure of prosperity gospel and word of faith movements to a deeper, more meaningful connection with Jesus. Desiree's experiences, particularly her hearing loss, show how God can use life's challenges to build resilience and open doors for sharing one's faith.

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Listen to Desiree's Season Three Episode:
https://www.honestchristianconversations.com/breaking-chains-finding-peace-beyond-religious-legalism/

Desiree's Website: https://www.arenewedcreation.com/

Link for Season Four Resources: https://www.honestchristianconversations.com/p/season-four/

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Chapters

• 0:00 Breaking Free From Word of Faith
• 9:42 Healing, Faith, and Perspective
• 23:09 Recognizing Deception in Prosperity Gospel
• 26:57 Dangers of Manifestation and False Teachings
• 33:01 Seeking Truth and Finding Freedom

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

What do you think of when you hear these words? Manifesting affirmation statements, health and wealth? If you said the reasons I no longer follow Christ false doctrines and new age stuff, or ways to deepen my faith then you might know which subject my returning guest, desiree Taylor, and myself will be discussing today. Desiree appeared on my podcast a few months ago Season 3, episode 7, sharing her story of coming out of legalism. Part of her impactful story involves this toxic doctrine. What doctrine are we talking about? Stay tuned to find out Before the episode starts. Make sure you follow the show so you never miss another episode. Well, hello again, desiree. I'm so excited to talk to you about today's topic. But before we start doing that, why don't you share with us who you are? For those who aren't familiar with your episode from season three, which was about legalism and breaking free from that, they should check that episode out, because it was very powerful and encouraging, and so was your book. Go ahead and tell us a little about yourself.

Speaker 2: 1:18

Well, thank you for having me on again. My name is Desiree Taylor. I am a first time author. I just wrote my first book and published it in August. It's called Created to Relate, Living Beyond Religion, talking about breaking out of those religious and legalistic mindsets into that freedom of the relationship with Jesus. I've been married to my husband for 28 years. I have two grown boys that are 30 and 25, and I'm hoping to write more books. So that's really what I do right now and I'm very involved in ministry with the young adults at church. Your book- was beautiful.

Speaker 1: 1:51

It did not take me that long to read it because I could relate to it, so the title is very fitting for the book, and your book actually deals a lot with the subject we're going to talk about today, which is word of faith, prosperity, gospel and laws of attraction. So you have had some experience with it, as have I and let's discuss this topic. So you want to share some of your experiences good, bad, ugly, whatever they are.

Speaker 2: 2:25

Yeah, I think one of the biggest experiences for me was because I am deaf and I have cochlear implants and my oldest son he would pray for healing all the time for me when he was younger and we were praying for that because of the prosperity, gospel influence and the word of faith. So as we prayed about this and nothing happened, people kept saying to me well, you probably don't have enough faith. This was said to me over and over again and it was very painful for me because I knew in my heart I believed that God could do this. And my son's praying, he's looking, he's hearing those things too. He's looking and not understanding why God's not healing me. And I mean I did everything. I went all the way to Benny Hinn for one of his things to. I think it was to prove to myself that I had the faith. And then, when nothing happened, then it was almost. It was so devastating to me because I'm like maybe there is something wrong with me that I don't have enough faith for God to do this, and it took me a long time to find out what a lie that was. And I feel like there's a lot of people in that. They feel like if things aren't happening the way they think it should, that they just don't have enough faith. I just talked to another lady the other day who was slowly going into this, so I'm looking forward to having that conversation with her to encourage her in that.

Speaker 2: 3:47

But as I sit now and I watch everything that God has done through my hearing loss, through the deafness, through my cochlear implant experience I have a beautiful relationship with my audiologist. I've been able to share Jesus with different people along the way. It's taught me such perseverance and I'm much stronger as a person but also as a child of God. It's caused me to rely on him more and to have a deeper trust in him and I think sometimes he just allows things for the reason he does. He's used my hearing loss. He's used my cochlear implant process to help other people. He says in his word that he comforts us in those things to comfort other people. Sometimes he has a higher purpose in what he's doing, even if we don't understand, and I think the word of faith personalizes it almost like the religious, legalistic stuff does, and makes it there's something wrong with you and that was a really difficult experience for me and it was painful. God's used it. He doesn't waste a thing, but it was a painful process.

Speaker 1: 4:47

Yeah, and I have some thoughts on what you said, because I understand and I can hear the pain when you're sharing it. But before we do that, I do want to tell those who may not be familiar with what these practices are, just give an overview of what they are. So word of faith and prosperity gospel kind of go hand in hand, and law of attraction goes in with it too. But these are a belief within, I guess you could say, the Christian faith. They're not very biblical so I have a hard time saying that, but for lack of whatever it's within the Christian faith, they believe that you have healing and prosperity is meant for you all the time, every day. God means you to be healthy and wealthy. All the time is basically what it dumbs down to. That's the meat and potatoes of what they believe is that health and wealth are supposed to be yours. You can claim that for yourself. God promised it to you. The problem with that is that God didn't promise this to us. Nowhere in the Bible does he promise this to us. He didn't even promise it to his son, jesus, when he came on this earth to die for our sins, and that was his sole purpose for coming was to die for our sins. I don't know about you guys listening, but that does not sound like health, wealth, prosperity to me. So that's what that is, and laws of attraction kind of goes in with that. I know we're going to touch on that too.

Speaker 1: 6:20

I recently heard on a podcast because I used to call it new age in style what it was. But I'm finding out it's not new age, it's called new thought. Melissa Doherty. I don't know if you know who she is, but she is someone who's come out of it since 2011. And she's starting to understand because she thought she was ex new age with what she believed, but she started realizing she was new thought, which is what word of faith? Prosperity, laws of attraction, things like that is New Thought, which can potentially lead you into the New Age. But she said on this podcast that the New Thought will deceive you before the New Age will. And it's absolutely true, because there's so many people who are steeped into this word of faith and maybe they don't fully know it.

Speaker 1: 7:08

But laws of attraction is more. Some people say it's, name it and claim it, blab it and grab it. They just have all these different acronyms or not acronyms, but catchy slogans for it. But that's what it is is vision boards. You put a vision board and you say all these different mantras of you know I am this, I am statements, and you look at yourself in the mirror. You almost pray those things over yourself and constantly repeat it like a mantra.

Speaker 1: 7:39

That's kind of what laws of attraction is is you get what you give. So if you're going to give good things, you're going to get good things or all that stuff Karma, I guess, would be another form of that. That's what laws of attraction is is you have to do the good things and you'll get the good things. And that's also not something that's super biblical. We reap what we sow, but that goes for good and bad things, not just good things. But they believe that you can manifest these things if you believe it.

Speaker 1: 8:10

Hard enough, like you were saying, if you have enough faith.

Speaker 1: 8:13

That is one of the things that they harp on the most is if you didn't get your healing, if you didn't get this, if you didn't get the big boat you've been praying for, you didn't have enough faith to believe you have that.

Speaker 1: 8:29

And that's one of the things that broke my heart when you were talking about your son and how he was praying for you when you were younger and he was listening to them saying you don't have enough faith. Jesus in the Bible tells us to have childlike faith. He wouldn't say that if kids didn't have faith or if their faith wasn't significant enough to notice Kids have a lot more faith than adults do, than we give them credit for. Your son probably believed with all his heart that God would heal you. And to hear people say that, that crumbles people's spiritual walks, it cripples them. There's so many people who have been involved in the Word of Faith and prosperity gospel who step away from the faith because of people talking to them like that. And I find it interesting that you went to a Benny Hinn conference because I don't know people specifically that have. I mean, I've heard stories and whatnot, but not someone that I kind of know personally. So I find that interesting yeah.

Speaker 2: 9:28

I was desperate. I told my husband. I said I need to go do this just so that I know. I need to know for myself whether I don't know. I just needed to prove that I had enough faith to prove that I didn't believe this.

Speaker 2: 9:42

But the thing is too, is I think we look at healing the wrong way too. Frankly, I've had a lot of healing. He's just healed me in it and honestly, I think I got the best of both worlds. I can take them off at night, not hear a thing and sleep great. And then this I wouldn't be able to do this without them. So God's been good to me.

Speaker 2: 10:01

There has been a lot of healing in it too, and emotionally and mentally, and learning how to advocate for myself and I advocate for other people and to be that kind of person to have and I have so much more compassion towards people who have to go through these things or have to deal with certain disabilities, and I think that's a gift and I feel like we look at people with disabilities as broken. But if everyone is made in God's image, then there's something about people with disability that are part of God's image to me and it's taken me a long time to really look at it that way, but I wouldn't get there if I hadn't gone through the process, and I just think that we need to shift our mindset, too, as to what healing looks like, and maybe that healing was more important for me than the physical healing, so, yeah, Amen, preach it.

Speaker 1: 10:49

Preach it, desiree. I love that. That is a great mindset to have. There are so many people in this world who believe that if you even get the sniffles you have to shut that down. You can't say a negative word about it. That's also part of the laws of attraction is don't speak negativity because you're going to get negativity. No, sometimes negativity just happens. I mean, what if you aren't speaking negative about something and someone comes around you and they speak negativity and that affects you. Some stuff is out of your control and you just can't handle that as saying oh, get away from me, you crazy negative person. You can't do that because there's going to be negativity and bad things that happen. The Bible says we will suffer. I don't understand why there's so many Christians who are involved in this and don't see the glaring problem staring at them. It is a glaring problem. We are not called to have cushy, wonderful, happy lives all the time. Jesus didn't have one.

Speaker 2: 11:52

Yeah, and that's the lie, I think. And I think sometimes it boils down to how we represent the gospel, because I've been in places, too, where we present it that way Come to Jesus and all will be well and we, we will be well, you know we will be well. But there are things we have to go through to be well, things you take us through. It's not a, it's a bumpy ride. It's not a smooth, like you said, cushy ride, some high class meal all the time and yeah, see, um, you know, we just I think the the perspective is, I just think we represent it wrong when we present the gospel. So some of that has been on our end as to how we say it. And then people expect somehow that Jesus is going to cure everything in the way they think they are. He does cure everything. He doesn't do it in the way we think he's going to.

Speaker 1: 12:40

Yeah, and I love that you said that, because that's where I was thinking too, is because you said we will be well, but we're not going to be well, maybe in the sense that we want it. I have a chronic issue that affects my nerves two, maybe three times a year and it's really uncomfortable and painful. Even if you were just to brush my arm, it just pins and needles. I can't take it. It only happens maybe a couple of days out of the month, but it's self-inflicted, because I made stupid choices in my past and did certain things with people and because of that I received this gift from the people. That was self-inflicted. I made bad choices. I got. I reaped what I sowed, basically, and sometimes you don't reap what you sow in the way that you were expecting For example, another part of my life. I should be in jail right now for some of the stuff that I've done. Clearly I'm not in jail, so God showed me some favor, so I didn't reap exactly what I sowed. It's not karma. If it was karma, I probably would be in jail, because that's different from God's love and his mercy. But sometimes you get healing in ways that you weren't expecting. You didn't get your full hearing back. But you got so much more. You've got a testimony to share. Your son got to see how you worked through the fact that God didn't heal you the way that he was praying, and I think that's going to strengthen his relationship more, because he gets to see how you're still relying on God, how you're still faithful through the fact that healing didn't go the way you wanted.

Speaker 1: 14:16

So in my case, with my nerve pain, I was really bitter about it when I first found out that I had this issue and it made me angry. I didn't have the right perspective and I wanted it to go away because it was uncomfortable. And I just didn't want it because what I have can create a stigma in the world. If I were to tell people what it is, they'll be like ew, but at some point I don't even know when it happened, but at some point I just surrendered even know when it happened, but at some point I just surrendered and said you know what, god, this isn't going away, it's uncomfortable, but I'm not going to fight you on it anymore.

Speaker 1: 14:49

There's a reason that I still go through this and maybe it's just so I can remember how faithful he's been, because, despite all the stupid things I did in my life, this chronic issue that only lasts maybe a couple days but happens maybe three times out of a year and is painful, but it only happens for a short amount of time. But it reminds me of the faithfulness of God in my life, that I'm not in jail, that I have not lost the things that I have now. I would not be married, I would not have three other beautiful children if he had given me what I truly deserved for my actions. So I look at it now as I believe it was Paul who was saying he has a thorn in his side. Maybe it was Peter, but that's what I look at it as it's just a thorn in my side. It's a reminder that God is all I need. His grace is sufficient for me.

Speaker 1: 15:41

And I think that's where we get it wrong, especially if we're focused on the health and wealth, prosperity gospel is. We just want everything to be happy, hunky-dory, we don't want to hurt, we don't want pain, suffering, all these things. But God works beautifully through those things and he gets the glory for it. When we come out on the other side healthy and strong and firm, and people look at us and they're in awe and they say what are you doing differently from me? And then you get a chance to share the love of Jesus. So we shouldn't be so quick to want to dismiss it, to mantra our way out of it, to vision board what we. But we should ask God to give us what he wants and bend to his will, because it's always going to be for our good and his perfect love. We should want what he has for us because it's always going to be the best.

Speaker 1: 16:40

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Speaker 2: 17:15

I agree with that too. Yeah, and we don't always look at it as it's the best in the moment, but it truly is. At the end of the day, when we get to the other side, we can see more of that. It's harder, I think, when we're in, and people do do things out of desperation. But I love that we're talking about this, because I don't hear it talked about in this way to expose things as to, and it's more of bringing them towards it instead of away from it. So I really love that you're doing this.

Speaker 1: 17:43

Yeah, and there is a movement that I'm noticing. A lot of the podcasts that I listen to, they're starting to talk about a lot of these different themes and it's good that more people are noticing now that it's a problem. They're sharing their experiences or talking about it and it is a subject that needs to be talked about within the church because it's involving the church and it's also for those who aren't in the church. It's giving them a bad idea of what God is. It's a bad example, because if you tell somebody God wants you to be healthy and wealthy all the time, you just got to sow the seed, you know, pay the money, the big bucks, all those different things that they tell you. And seed, pay the money, the big bucks, all those different things that they tell you. And if it doesn't happen, then maybe you didn't sow enough, maybe you don't have enough faith.

Speaker 1: 18:29

Why is some non-believer going to want to become a believer if that's the God they serve, who isn't getting enough money, getting enough of that cheddar, that he's not doing what he needs to do? Nobody's going to want to serve that. I mean, when I was in it, I had a hard time. If something didn't go right, I wondered what did I do wrong? Why didn't God answer my prayer? I was praying, I was saying all these things, I believed these things. I believed that he was going to do this for me and my family. Why didn't he do it? What am I doing wrong? And maybe it's not you at that point. Maybe he's just saying no, not yet. Or you're doing it wrong, let's try it this way. But you're not focused on that. You're focused on you and what you're doing wrong and how you can fix it.

Speaker 2: 19:17

And it's not about you, yeah, and I think a lot of those things. That's where the attention what God can do for me, what God can do for me all the time and makes God this genie that you're just supposed to say, rub the lamp and he's supposed to show up and give you what you want and that's not who God is. I think that's the other key is for people to really we really need to represent God well, because the problem is they don't know God. So when we represent him that way, of course they're going to think that that's the way he works. And I mean it's really interesting because I mean we've been through everything possible and we went through that one too with the prosperity gospel.

Speaker 2: 19:54

We've invested in places, listening to that, thinking that this was somehow the way or whatever, because we were, we've been tight a lot most of our lives. And you get kind of weary in that and you wonder what is that really? Is this really your best for me? But meanwhile we're going, we're trusting and investing in this and meanwhile they're buying jets and living in mansions and you start to wonder what's wrong with this picture. I mean I don't know, but we're blinded to that, we're deceived, we're really we're trying to make things better for ourselves, like you said, and we're thinking this is some magical answer to life's problems, you know, in the easy way to just to try to get it done.

Speaker 2: 20:37

And it just doesn't work that way. That's not, that's not really the way God, and God works that way sometimes. I believe he still heals people. I believe he still is a miracle worker in every way, and I've seen it in my own life, where there's immediate things, but a lot of the times he doesn't work that way. I mean, for me, I need to learn how to wait to enjoy the process, and usually that's the way I have to learn. So I think most of us are like that he just doesn't do it that way, but we represent him wrong in so many ways sometimes.

Speaker 1: 21:09

Yeah, and there are some teachers out there who are definitely representing him wrong Joyce Meyer, joel Osteen, kenneth Copeland, all these others, andrew Womack people who are just. You have to look at the fruit and line it up with scripture. Look at the people you're listening to. I used to listen to Joyce Meyer a lot and she used to give me the warm fuzzies. But that's not biblical to give people the warm fuzzies. We're supposed to be feeling conviction for our sins so that we can change. We're supposed to be trying to be like Christ. We're never going to achieve that until we die and go to heaven, but we're supposed to be trying to do that. So if you're getting the warm fuzzies all the time, you're not growing, because then you feel, oh, I'm good where I am, I'm this, I'm that.

Speaker 1: 21:58

I was listening to Melissa Doherty, who was talking on this podcast, and she was saying if you're having a bad day and you need a reminder that you are a child of God, that is not a mantra, that is not laws of attraction, that is not an affirmation statement. That is you reminding yourself of who you are so that you can stay strong. There's a difference between words of affirmation and trying to say something over and over. You have to look at your why. Why are you saying this? Why do you feel the need to say this right now? What is your purpose for it? And when you check your motives for a lot of the things, I think that's where the scales will come off your eyes and you will start realizing where you're going wrong in your doctrine. Why do you believe that God expects you to be perfect all the time? Why do you believe that you're supposed to have health and wealth all the time? Where's your proof of that? You know? Then you take a step out of yourself and out of your own desires. You can see the truth, and the truth will set you free, and I think there's just a lot of people, especially in America.

Speaker 1: 23:09

We want to live cushy, happy lives. We don't want people to tell us the truth, because the truth hurt. But that's what we need is the truth. We need someone to come up to the pulpit and tell us that we're sinners in need of a Savior. We don't need them to say, oh, you are enough, you are okay, you will be fine. God loves you and he wants everything to go your way. That sounds good, that's what we want to hear, but that's not what God is saying, because if you read the Bible, I don't hear that. When I read the Bible, I mean he wants.

Speaker 2: 23:43

I mean he wants us to know that he loves us. That's important, but I think where we get stuck is, yes, and he loves us, he wants us to come to him where we are, but it's not where he wants to leave us. And too many times those are the things that leave us there, because we don't think that there's anything else to do. And you know he loves us where we are but he wants to take us to where we look more like him, and that takes work and that takes pruning and that takes all those things that we don't want to do, because it people that I just mentioned or others there's plenty others out there who are doing the same thing the Prosperity Gospel, creflo Dollar is another one, and there's some other ones that I can't remember or whatever.

Speaker 1: 24:43

They're everywhere. But look at the fruit. Who are they pointing back to? If a miracle were to happen when you hear one of their stories about how God intervened in their life and did this or that, who's getting the glory there? Look at that and then read your Bible. They use scripture. If they didn't use scripture then I don't think Christians would be as involved in it, because they'd realize quickly that it's not biblical. But they use scripture, they just twist it. They tweak it a little like Satan did in the Bible in the very beginning when he was twisting God's words. Did he really say that's what they do? They twist the scripture?

Speaker 1: 25:28

That's why we have to be in our word, constantly knowing what the Bible says, and we have to be listening with ears to hear what God is saying about who God is, because the Bible is God's love story to us and you mentioned that in your book, which I felt was a beautiful chapter talking about that, the Bible and what it is. It's a love story to us, about him, not about us. It's about him and his love for us, what he did for us, yes, but it's to show us who God is and why we should glorify him, why we should serve him. So you have to look at the Bible from that perspective, which isn't easy because we are selfish human beings. I mean, we're constantly looking at what can I get out of this? What is he trying to tell me? He might be trying to tell you something, but it might not be about your current situation, it might not be for you specifically, but he's just trying to show you who he is, reveal himself to you of who he is, so that you can better glorify him.

Speaker 1: 26:32

And if we start stepping out of ourselves more and focus on God and try to read the Bible the way that we should which is remembering it's about him I think we will start being able to see more of the deception that is coming out of the word of faith and the prosperity gospel and laws of attraction and all these affirmations that we're mantra-ing. You can't manifest anything. We aren't God. We are made in the image of God, but we aren't God. We don't have that kind of power. Have you had any times in your life where you've tried to do the words of affirmation or the don't speak anything negative because it might come true. Did you ever get really into the whole manifestation part of it, I know?

Speaker 2: 27:22

I did. I never got into that too much. I mean, I've heard a lot of it. I've been around a lot of people who do that. I mean I think I tried it a little bit, but it really was so ineffective for me. It didn't take me long. I think God taught me as I was messing around with that a little bit. Yeah, he showed me. It's just on his end. It's being grateful. That's where the power is being grateful and learning to be content, not just shouting out positive words all the time and avoiding the negative. Jesus didn't avoid the negative either. I mean, if you look in his words, he didn't always say pretty words.

Speaker 1: 27:59

Yeah, he called people out. He said get thee behind me, satan. To Peter. So yeah, he didn't mince his words. He wasn't a fluffy bunny sermon preacher words. He wasn't a fluffy bunny sermon preacher. He told it in as loving a way as he could to get the point across and the ones who had ears to hear heard what he said and did something positive about it, and then everyone else just went on with their life. I can't hear you.

Speaker 1: 28:28

And then we wonder why things go wrong, and sometimes they're out of our control. They have to do with other people and their decisions. Other times we need to look inward and say I think I brought this on myself and you could be the most positive person all the time, saying all the positive things, manifesting as much as you want. But if it doesn't happen, what does that do to your faith? Was your faith actually genuine? Do you still trust God, or do you fall away because you loved the religion or the leader of it more than you loved God, because you didn't have a relationship with God, which is a scary thought to think about. But you have to do that now, while you still have time, because when you die there is no time to have that thought and to make those judgments. It's over at that point.

Speaker 2: 29:15

I have been around so many people who go in this direction, though and I live in an area that has a lot of this. I would love to ask some of these people do you see fruit there? You know what do you see? Where does the positive words go? Who are you even saying them to? I don't understand. I have a hard time understanding why people continue that when really it doesn't work.

Speaker 1: 29:41

Yeah, yeah, it's hard when you're in it. It's a hyper emotional feeling type of beliefs and I think that's why it's hard to get out of. But once you are out of it and you've been out of it for a while you start seeing it and you're like, how do you not see this? But I think we have to, instead of condemning them, we have to remember how we were when we were in it, how we felt, how we were drawn in all these things. They affected us so deeply and we wanted to prove, like you said, we wanted to prove that we had enough faith, that we were good Christians, that we loved God the right way. We wanted to prove it.

Speaker 1: 30:27

But that's not how you prove it. You prove it by living according to God's word, and this practice is not according to God's word because it puts you back into a form of legalism that is extremely more toxic than just following what the Bible says and doing it, even though you don't know why you're doing it on a different path to a different Jesus, on top of putting you in legal bondage to. You must do this, and if you don't do it right, you don't have enough faith. So increase your faith now. But how do you increase your faith? That was always my issue is if I don't have enough faith, and that's why this isn't happening, how do I increase my faith? But they never had an actual answer other than read your Bible, pray more. What does pray more mean? When do you hit that peak that you have prayed enough to have the faith for whatever you're praying for? And then, when you name it and claim it, that doesn't work either, because I named and claimed so many different things, but life got out of hand.

Speaker 1: 31:30

My eldest child is a prodigal. She's heavy into the whole transgender stuff. I named and claimed that she was for Jesus, that Satan couldn't have her. He has her right now. What am I supposed to do about that? Am I supposed to just say, well, god is terrible, I don't want anything to do with him, goodbye. No, it was not God. God is terrible, I don't want anything to do with him. Goodbye. No, it was not God.

Speaker 1: 31:55

None of this is of God, and that's the dangerous part of it is that you are pulling people away from God when things don't go their way, because they've put God and the person they're following, who's teaching them these things, in the same position that they should not be.

Speaker 1: 32:09

In the person you are following, who you glorify, through believing what they're saying, reading all their books, following their teachings and the things they say to do, you are elevating them to a position that they are God or God-like and you can't touch them. They know what they're talking about so that when something goes wrong, you associate that person as God, and there's no in between. It's not. Oh, this person failed me because they're human and they make mistakes. It's no, it's God, because you have turned that person into a God and you've blurred the lines between what's reality and what's not, and people are not God. God may be using some people, but they aren't God, and you can't blame God when things don't go right in your life, because he's not the one who told you to do it that way anyways.

Speaker 2: 33:01

Yeah, and I think it boils down to because we are all seeking for something to fill us, every single one of us, and I feel like there's almost an addictive nature in all of this, too, because I kept seeking. That's what addictive nature in all of this, too? Because I kept seeking, that's what brought me to many hen, because I kept seeking and trying to. Yeah, so every someone, in every single one of these areas, they're seeking for that filling and the problem is it's not coming. So you keep going. It's like gambling, yeah, because you think there's something, there's going to be something at the end for you, and the problem is is is like you said, they're, they're seeking after. I believe they're seeking for God, but they're seeking after the wrong one, and I just pray that God opens people's eyes to see and I think these conversations will help so that they do find the one true God, and he fills them the way they need to be filled.

Speaker 1: 33:54

Yeah, absolutely Well. Thank you, Desiree, for coming on today. This has been a very powerful conversation that I hope people have had open hearts to hearing what we've said and not just closed it off because we're rubbing them wrong or whatever. And I can't stress it enough that we need to stay in the word and know what it truly says so that we can discern when someone's telling us a lie, because it is so easy to get sucked into this and to stay in there because it's so emotionally felt. It's a very touchy-feely type of thing and that draws you in and can keep you, and that is not healthy.

Speaker 1: 34:39

We're not always going to have a mountaintop experience with God. A lot of times we're in the valley and if you aren't open to that, then you have to submit to God and ask him to help you get to that place, because this doctrine, this faith, healing, all these things where they are telling you all these lies, it's not good, it's very toxic and draws people away from the church and ruins people's faith. So thank you for coming on and sharing your experience and for just sharing your heart. I love your book. Everyone needs to read it. It's got a lot in there and, yeah, I just love you. You're so sweet.

Speaker 2: 35:23

You're so honest. Thanks for having me on, yeah, and I love being able to talk about these things. This is my heart too, which is to talk about those things that have been in the dark for a long time and see people free. That's what I pray for that these opportunities just are more opportunities to share who he is and what he's done and to see people free from the place they're in. So thanks for the opportunity for that.