Honest Christian Conversations
A weekly podcast dealing with cultural and spiritual issues within the Christian faith.
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Honest Christian Conversations
Why Do Christians Defend Yoga?
Can New Age practices like yoga find a place within the Christian faith, or are they inherently incompatible? This episode of Honest Christian Conversations dares to tackle this provocative question head-on. With my insightful guest, David Libby, we explore the spiritual dimensions and potential conflicts that arise when practices traditionally rooted in other religions are integrated into Christian life.
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https://www.honestchristianconversations.com/faith-and-resilience-in-the-face-of-chronic-illness/
https://www.honestchristianconversations.com/what-if-you-werent-miraculously-healed/
Link for Season Four Resources: https://www.honestchristianconversations.com/p/season-four/
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On this episode of Honest Christian Conversations, I am joined once more by my brother in Christ, david Libby, to discuss the topic of redeeming New Age practices. Is there a way to save these practices so that Christians can safely do them, or is this just another false teaching? Keep listening to learn which practices we are talking about and whether it's even a biblical concept. Before the episode starts, make sure you follow the show so you never miss another episode. Thank you, david, for coming on today. I am very excited to talk about this topic because it's a mixture of different subjects, but one of them has been talked about a lot lately because it's starting to become an issue everyone's eyes are open to, one being yoga. But we are going to be talking about new age practices and I'm very excited that you took the time to come on and discuss this with me. Let's get into it, okay.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you, anna. I'm awfully glad that you invited me to talk about this. I've never been an occultist. I've never been in the New Age movement. I know people who have. I have a very good friend who, before he was converted to Christianity, was on the road to becoming a New Age priest, and he tells some interesting stories. He's seen supernatural things which are demonic in nature. The New Age is just like Hinduism and Islam and Mormonism and all kinds of other Freemasonry secret societies. These aren't just things of human invention. These things have demonic roots and I'm flattered that you would invite me. I have studied this and I am ministering in an area in central Maine where there's a lot of New Age influence and a lot of Wiccans and a lot of Covens, and so this is stuff that we are somewhat involved in, but there are others out there who are better experts at it than I am. So I'm flattered that you would invite me and I'm very, very glad to be here yeah, no problem.
Speaker 1:So which topic do you want to talk about first? Do we start with the elephant in the room of yoga, or should we go to the other ones?
Speaker 1:that nobody's probably thinking, uh nice, we'll start with the outfit, I guess, if that's what you want to do yeah, well, yoga, uh, I never really liked yoga, even before I found any of this other stuff about it out. I just I could never really do the poses. I didn't understand why you had to be so perfect with it. Everyone always made it look so flawless and so fabulous, but I was just like it just wasn't for me. I'm like I can just stretch. I don't need to stretch in some weird pose, so I was just never really a fan of it. But once again, 2020 has really opened my eyes to a lot of different things, and this was one of them, and I started learning what is really yoga is about, and it's more of a spiritual worship of Hindu deity. You're acting out poses from different fight scenes, or whatever you're, as Doreen Virtue calls it. She's amazing, by the way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1:Her YouTube. Follow her YouTube.
Speaker 2:Amen.
Speaker 1:Talks about how it's like a graven image.
Speaker 1:You're turning yourself into a graven image and if that doesn't scare you into getting away from yoga as fast as possible, then I don't really know what will, because we are told not to have any idols above God and we're always thinking the whole oh well, you know, maybe I'm on social media too much, so maybe I'm making that an idol, or I watch too much TV or video games or I eat too much, but no one's thinking about yoga as, oh, I'm idolizing with my body, I'm doing something really wrong.
Speaker 1:Nobody's thought about that. They are now because it's starting to be something that a lot of Christian podcasters are talking about. But it's a subject that is, it breeds contempt for those who really like it Christian or not Christian and those who don't it like breeds a fighting spirit between them, and it's really sad because, especially for Christians, we should not be at war against each other. If it says that you are worshiping other gods by doing this and you're creating yourself into a graven image, I feel like all Christians should be able to get behind that and say, yeah, this is bad, we shouldn't be doing it. But that's not the case.
Speaker 2:Well, I agree with you and you know, I remember a time I think I'm a little older than you. I'm 55. Yeah, 40, so not too much older than you. I'm 55. Yeah, 40,. So not too much, okay, not too much right. But I remember, you know, maybe when I was 20 or so, I remember yoga being something that Christians would not do. And that's all changed and I grew up in an ecclesiastical tradition, in Reformed churches, where there was a very strong emphasis on sound doctrine, and even in those churches now pastors' wives are doing yoga.
Speaker 2:And it really amazes me, and I guess, even beyond what you said. I agree 100% with everything you said about the graven image, second commandment, but even beyond that, what we see in yoga is an intentional act of worship being offered to a pantheon of idols, gods that aren't really gods, and I believe there are demonic influences behind these gods. I don't believe it's simply man-made idols. So we have the Hindu pantheon and yoga being actually venerated and worshipped. When I mentioned the poses, we all agree that physical exercise is a good thing, right, I mean, there's nothing wrong with physical exercise. But you can't do these poses in yoga without there being acts of worship to this Hindu pantheon. That's what they're intended to be. Our actions and our words have objective meaning behind them.
Speaker 2:I think you mentioned the warrior poses, the Virabhadrasana. You're actually acting out in these warrior poses, You're acting out a murder scene where Shiva was being avenged by Virabhadra, and the worst part of it isn't that it's a murder scene where Shiva was being avenged by Virabhadra, and the worst part of it isn't that it's a murder scene. The worst part is it's a murder scene as an act of veneration for Virabhadra as he vindicated Shiva or avenged Shiva. I'm fuzzy on the details. I read about this years ago. You mentioned the elephant in the room. It's interesting that Ganesha's involved somehow as well. Ganesha was the elephant head.
Speaker 1:It somehow as well, because that was the elephant head. It is so funny. Yeah, I don't get it. I don't. I don't understand what the appeal is to the to the point that christians defend it. I mean to think about it.
Speaker 1:Where in any other sort of workout do they critique your position? I do. I've worked out before. I've seen some videos where they say make sure you're doing it right because you don't want to hurt yourself. But they're not going to come up behind you and make sure that your squat is absolutely, 100%, exact the way they think it should be or the way they were taught it should be, as long as you look pretty much safe, you know, I've been told you keep your feet up and if you can wiggle your feet, then you've got your body set in the correct position to do a squat. That's pretty much all they tell you. They don't sit there scrutinizing you 100 percent, make sure it looks great. But that's what they do with yoga. I've seen it in movies, I've seen it in shows, I've seen classes. They're constantly making sure you're doing it right.
Speaker 1:Your arm may not be all the way up where it should be. What do you mean? My arm isn't all the way up where it should be. It's up, it's practically up. It looks like everyone else's. Why are you pushing it down just a little bit? Because you're not in the graven image position that you need to be to do the worship. You're doing it wrong.
Speaker 2:That's correct.
Speaker 1:They won't say that, but that's what it is, and if you think about it then it's like good gracious you should stop right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah those poses are meant to be. They are intentionally. Now, I don't necessarily mean intentional on the part of the person practicing yoga, the person could be ignorant, but it is an intentional act of worship and as God is very particular about how we used to be worshipped, so is Satan. So these poses are an intentional act of worship and therefore you've got to get it right or you're not worshipping correctly. Actually Hindu prayers, hindu prayers being offered to a pantheon of demon gods, a pantheon of false gods.
Speaker 2:I'm reminded of a text. Do you mind? If I read a little text from Ezekiel, I can find the right one, because this actually, I think is very appropriate to what we're talking about here with yoga. Now, this isn't a text about yoga specifically, but I'll read it and then we can give a little commentary on it. Look Ezekiel 8, starting at verse 13,.
Speaker 2:And he said to me Turn again and you will see greater abominations that they are doing. So he brought me to the door of the north gate of the Lord's house and, to my dismay, women were sitting there weeping for Tammuz. Now, weeping for Tammuz, you know they weren't actually weeping. It's kind of a ritual that they would go through as an act of worship to these Canaanite gods. But that's the same thing that you're doing. When you're doing these yoga poses. You're essentially, for instance, the details, you're not weeping for Tammuz, but the essence of it is exactly the same thing. You're using poses and in Aum and Namaste you're using the prayers and so forth that are actually being offered as a ritual, as a form of worship to these Hindu gods. But if I read on a little bit from here, then he said to me have you seen this, o son of man? Turn again and you will see greater abominations than these. And he brought me into the inner court of the Lord's house and there, at the door of the temple of the Lord, between the porch and the altar, were about 25 men with their backs toward the temple of the Lord and their faces toward the east, and they were worshiping the sun toward the east.
Speaker 2:Okay, so in yoga you've got the whole series of poses, the sun salutation poses. That is very literally the exact same thing that they were doing here in Ezekiel 8. They're worshiping the sun. The sun salutation poses in yoga are sun worship. You know exactly the same thing we read about right here, which God calls an abomination. If I could read just a couple of verses more. Yeah, of course. And he said to me have you seen this, o son of man? Is it a trivial thing to the house of Judah to commit the abominations which they commit here? For they have filled the land with violence. They have returned to provoke me to anger. Indeed, they put the branch to their nose. Therefore, I will act in fury. Those are strong words. I will act in fury. My eye will not spare, nor will I have pity, and though they cry in my ears with a loud voice, I will not hear them. Those are really strong words from the almighty Lord of hosts.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Which kind of reminds me of an underlying problem that I think forms a foundation for the acceptance of things like yoga within the church, and that is that we have lost our fear of God. Don't you think? To fear God doesn't mean that we're scared of him as if he were our enemy? He's not our enemy, but it does actually mean to be scared. You know, he's a consuming fire. Hebrews 12, 28 tells us, and that's in relation to his elect, his people. So we've lost the fear of God and so we think, ah, he doesn't really care that much.
Speaker 2:But when I look at what yoga actually is, it's really the same thing that's happening here, and we have God saying that it's an abomination to him. It makes him very angry and his eye will not spear. He will not relent without repentance. We know that with repentance, all of a sudden, with true repentance, faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, even these abominations are forgiven and we're made new. But without repentance, god is not okay with this, this. He's not okay with these kinds of practices yeah, and it's a new age practice.
Speaker 1:If you look at it, it comes from eastern religion. Hello, there's the tip off that maybe christians should at least be a little aware because it's so popular. It's. It's everywhere, it's in the movies I watch, you know there's studios everywhere.
Speaker 1:But if you look at it and I know Doreen Virtue has mentioned it and a couple other people that I listen to who also talk about the subject, they all mention it that when you get involved in yoga you don't just stay just involved in yoga. Usually it leads you down a path to other practices that are new age in spirit, because you're not actually just working out Like if you were to go to the gym and pump weights. You're not going to all of a sudden find yourself in some sort of cult or whatever because you're just there to pump weights, but with yoga you find yourself diving deeper into it because you're emptying your mind, you're oming and all this stuff. You're doing all these things that are leading you to a darker path and you don't even know it or you don't see it as dark because you feel relaxed, you feel calm and all this stuff, but it is only short-lived.
Speaker 2:It's helping me. It can't be wrong, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Well, my back feels better and it's like well, there's other back stretches that you can do. That's not an excuse to keep going if you know it's wrong.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, and I'm not convinced, that Satan doesn't have the ability to give us temporal benefits for serving him. But if serving Satan makes me feel better here in this life, I want to feel terrible. If the cost of feeling better is serving Satan, I want to feel terrible. And if we serve him, we lose in the end big time.
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Speaker 2:The link is in the show notes. Yeah, oh, Anna, thank you for mentioning the emptying of the mind, what you just said a minute ago. That should always be a red flag for any servant of the Lord. You know, we find that in things like you know, contemplative prayer.
Speaker 1:Yes, I wanted to talk to you about that too.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay, yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1:Bring it. Bring it, David.
Speaker 2:Contemplative prayer is presented as this way to, you know, draw closer to God, have a closer, you know, felt relationship with him. That is wonderful. To have a closer felt relationship with God, to have this subjective relationship. You know, there is an objective side. There's also a subjective side. We need to know God through the study of his word. We, you know, we, can't know God without knowing about him. But we could know all about him and not really know him. You know, no problem, it's great, you know. Jesus said in Revelation 3, behold, it's great. Jesus said in Revelation 3, behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone will open the door to me, I will come in and commune with them, dine with them. So I want to open that door, I want them to dine with me, commune with me. I want to have that felt relationship. But the problem with contemplative prayer it says you get that by emptying your mind and we do not find that anywhere in Scripture.
Speaker 2:We find exactly the opposite. We find the renewing of the mind, Meditating on Scripture. Exactly that's right. Gird up your mind. 1 Peter 1.13,. I think the mind is always supposed to be actively engaged. God wants our minds. He doesn't want us to be empty vessels.
Speaker 1:That's what.
Speaker 1:Satan wants. Just empty yourself and he'll find something to fill that void with. It's not going to be anything good what I did hear about it. It sounded very new, agey, very you know. Empty your mind and like that does not sound like what we're supposed to be doing and I just I don't like how this these things are being taught to children in school too.
Speaker 1:I mean, yoga is a big thing in schools, public schools mostly. It's supposed to help relax the kids. It's like you know what else helps relax the kids, not yoga, because I've heard some stories about how kids have nightmares in bed, weddings and other things that happen afterwards and, hello, it's because they're demons attached to this stuff. It's not just a practice. If your child is acting different after doing any sort of yoga, perhaps you should look at the yoga.
Speaker 1:I mean this happened to me for a little bit when my girls were you know. They did some yoga at their school for a little while until I started learning more about this and I was like, yeah, this is bad, but I noticed some odd behaviors coming from them not to the extreme that I just mentioned, but they weren't acting quite themselves. So I just decided I'm going to tell their school no yoga, please. And I explained to my girls why they know that it's a fake God worship. That's basically what I told them, because they're young so they know that and they tell their teachers we can't do this, this is fake God worship. That. And they tell their teachers we can't do this, this is fake God worship. And it's fine. I'm fine with them knowing that and that they're carrying that on and their understanding and it just. It makes me angry that they're just putting this in the schools like this is something that's going to help kids or whatever, but I think it's harming them too, and nobody is batting an eye about it.
Speaker 2:Well, I think we need to maybe see a bigger picture here too that you know there is. We're seeing a worldwide rise in Luciferianism and, you know, I think we need to recognize that, we need to recognize the global influence of a Luciferian, luciferic system and maybe even come to see things like New Age, mormonism, freemasonry, any sequence societies, any of that things as different denominations maybe of Luciferianism and with that in mind, we can recognize that this is intentional. You know they're evangelizing. Well, it's not the good news. What would the opposite of that?
Speaker 1:be Evangelizing, they're devangelizing.
Speaker 2:But that's what they're doing, know they? They want our children. I I looked into some a little bit into, uh, after school satan clubs and so forth, but which are springing up all across the country there's some around me too, or where I live, you know yeah, I, I saw, I saw a little jingle recently, a little song.
Speaker 2:It sounded so cute and neat and it had a baphomet symbol while they were playing the song and it was about how Satan's not a scary guy, satan's a good guy and a nice guy, and little kids jingling. So this is intentional. It's intentional and of course it is. It's been intentional since Genesis 3, genesis 2, I think Anyway, so probably.
Speaker 1:If we're going to talk about the elephant in the room, we us too, I think, anyway, so probably if we're going to talk about the elephant in the room, Anna, we maybe ought to talk about how there have actually been attempts to Christianize yoga, right Like the praise moves, praise moves, prayer moves, yes.
Speaker 1:Oh my goodness, I love Christians. I understand what they think they're trying to do with this. I get the concept, what they think they're trying to do with this. I get the concept, I completely get the concept that we want to try to redeem it. But there's some things you just can't redeem. You know this is one of them. The poses themselves are worshiping idols. So how are you going to redeem that if all you're doing is switching the name and putting a Bible verse on it, but you're still doing the pose. That's the problem. Is the pose, not what it's called or whatever they explain it as the problem is the pose, because that's the worship.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. I think that any of your listeners who aren't familiar with a little bit of theological doctrinal lingo a term called the regulative principle probably should become familiar with it. At the time of the Reformation, when Martin Luther nailed his 95 Theses on the church door, it sparked the Protestant Reformation, and what he was attempting to accomplish there wasn't to split from the Catholic Church, but he wanted to have an internal debate with another blowing up, and the Protestant Reformation was born, thankfully. But Luther it's understandable because he was a Catholic monk, but he wanted to retain as much as he could from Roman Catholicism in corporate worship, as much of the liturgy as he could. That wasn't overtly evil and sinful. Then later, reformers like John Calvin and others came along and said well, you know what? That's actually not going far enough. We need to regulate corporate worship from Scripture alone, from the New Testament alone. So, in other words, if a practice is not directly commanded by God, we shouldn't do it, and there's quite a stark difference there. And so what we see in the church today is what's often called the normative principle. If God hasn't forbidden it, therefore, it's okay. That's why we have clowns and mimes and interpretive dance and so forth in our services and all kinds of other weird stuff that goes even farther than that. But the regulative principle would say no, actually it's not okay to do things that God hasn't commanded. We have to stick with what he has prescribed. Let's get our definition of corporate worship from God's word, and from God's word alone. So that principle applies here. If you take a, a Hindu practice, a practice that is actually worship of the Hindu pantheon, as I'll read one of them, I'm going to turn to 1 Kings, chapter 12, and I'm going to read verses 28 through 33. So 1 Kings 12, 28 through 33.
Speaker 2:Okay, so the context here is when Solomon handed off the kingdom to his son, rehoboam. You know, solomon the wisest king had built the most foolish king to succeed him, and there was that split between the ten tribes of Israel and the two tribes that remained under Rehoboam, that would be Judah and Benjamin, and a man named Jeroboam, son of Nebat, became king of the ten tribes of Israel. So that's the context. So, therefore, the king, that's Jeroboam, asked advice, made two calves of gold and said to the people it is too much for you to go up to Jerusalem. Here are your gods, o Israel, which brought you up from the land of Egypt, and he set up one in Bethel and the other he put in Dan. Now this thing became a sin, for the people went to worship before the one. As far as Dan, he made shrines in the high places and made priests from every class of people who were not of the sons of Levi. Jeroboam ordained a feast on the fifteenth day of the eighth month, like the feast that was in Judah, and offered sacrifices on the altar. So he did at Bethel, sacrificing to the calves he had made, and at Bethel he installed the priests of the high places which he had made. So he made offerings on the altar which he had made at Bethel on the 15th day of the eighth month in the months which he had devised in his own heart. And he ordained a feast for the children of Israel and offered sacrifices on the altar and burned incense.
Speaker 2:And that's not the only time there were golden calves. It was Exodus 32, when Moses was up on Mount Sinai and Aaron made a golden calf. So in this case, here and in Exodus 32, we don't have King Jeroboam and Aaron in Exodus saying you know what? Let's forget about the God of Abraham, isaac and Jacob. Let's turn our backs on Yahweh and turn to other gods. That's not what happened in either of these cases. In both cases, they said this is God, this is Yahweh, this is the God who brought you out of the land of Egypt. Let's just do it our own way.
Speaker 2:In both cases here in 1 Kings and also in Exodus 32, probably more so in Exodus 32, the form of worship that was being prescribed, the golden calf was something they were familiar with. Calf worship was prevalent in Egypt. Egypt, for 400 years, came into the world and they're saying Moses is not coming down from the mountain. We don't know what became of him. Aaron, make us a god. So we said okay, here is a representation of the true and living God. So he wasn't saying turn away from God. He was saying this is God, this is the one who brought you out of Egypt, and it's something they were familiar with.
Speaker 2:You're familiar with calf worship? Okay, well, we'll make a calf, literally the same thing that's being done in yoga. You're retaining the outward elements of the Hindu worship and just try to Christianize it. Okay, so we're going to go through the Virabhadrasana warrior poses and we're not going to offer this as worship to Virabhadra. We're going to offer it as worship to Jesus instead. Well, no, you're taking a golden calf and saying this is the God who brought you out of the land of Egypt. It's not. The yoga, is not worship of the Lord Jesus. You can't do that. You can't take the golden calf and say you know, this is the true God. No, it isn't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree. What do you think about Christ alignment cards're like christian tarot cards or tarot.
Speaker 2:I believe it's tarot is the correct term the whole point of tarot cards is fortune telling, divination, um, and, by the way, it does seem to work. You know you mentioned dorian virtue, she, she and uh, the other ladies on that other podcast. They talk about that. It works, same way that you know psychic, so-called gifts work. You know there's a demonic realm out there that can feed us information. But to take a tool of divination and divination and it got a fortune telling is absolutely, without question, denounced as an absolute abomination in the sight of God, something that angers him. To take that practice and to try to Christianize it, try to put Christian symbols on these cards, I mean that's like adding insult to injury. I think it's worse. I think Christian tarot cards are probably worse than the non-Christian ones You're going to try to involve, you're going to try to wrap Jesus up in this somehow, in this evil fortune-telling divination. It's horrible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, divination, it's horrible, yeah, and I don't know if the person who came up with it is affiliated with Bethel or Hillsong, but I know Bethel, I believe, has something to do with these cards. I don't see how any Christian who's got their head on straight, who's focused on God and has their Bible open all the time and knows the word, can look at these things and not say something for one, and maybe even be involved or just dismiss it or say, oh, what's the problem? What's the harm? They're trying to help people, but you're not helping people if, like you said, divination is an abomination. The Bible clearly says do not do this.
Speaker 1:So if you are doing it, guess what you're doing. You're doing what, james? What is it? One, not one. I don't remember specifically where it is, but it is one of my favorite verses, james, I think it's. I want to say 417, but I could be wrong. You might know once I say it. James says if you know what you ought to do and you don't do it, you're sinning. I believe it's James 4, 17. I could be wrong.
Speaker 2:I'm not sure I'm familiar with the verse. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it's that's. That's plain as day. You're not supposed to do divination, but you're doing divination the Jesus way, oh, noesus way. There's no jesus way to do what he told you not to do yeah, no, I oh yeah amen.
Speaker 1:Um, like I said, I think it's almost worse yeah, yeah, it is because you're leading other people astray, because then they think that that's okay, that it's not real demon worship, it's. It's okay, it's jesus. It's like what I was saying when I did my series on worship music and how we need to be careful on what our worship music is saying too and the values that are in that during season two. If you haven't listened to it, you should go listen to it.
Speaker 2:I haven't, but I will.
Speaker 1:Example yeah. Yeah, it's like. This is a perfect example of you can't always just trust just because someone says it's Christian or I'm a Christian. You have to look at the fruit. You have to look at what they're promoting, whatever they call it. Where's the spiritual fruit that's leading to God's glory? It's non-existent, because you were flat out doing something he told you not to do.
Speaker 2:Right, right. Well, you mentioned Hillsong and Bethel Music and I haven't looked into them a whole lot, but enough to satisfy me that I think that there is something really dark there. In fact, I've seen what almost look like witchcraft rituals happening right on the stage sometimes. Yeah, yeah, stuff to be taken seriously. It shouldn't surprise us.
Speaker 2:The Lord Jesus said the church would be infiltrated. There will be wolves in sheep's clothing. In my ecclesiastical tradition they limit that to false teaching. Now, false teaching certainly is included in that. Wolves in sheep's clothing are often false teachers. But I believe that Satan is clever enough to introduce infiltration in other ways as well. I know one pastor who performed church in another state. I'm not going to say any names, but I believe he's a ritual attending Luciferian. He came to a church and shut down prayer, made all kinds of changes. That still teaches sound doctrine, but I'm not going to go into much detail. Infiltration happens, I guess, in a lot of different ways. I guess is my point. We have to be on a guard against that. That's what the Lord Jesus commanded that we do, anyway.
Speaker 1:Discernment. We need to be in the Word. If you aren't in the Word, you don't know what God's telling you. You don't know what he's saying. How are you going to know what the right things are? And if you're not going to listen to people who are in the word, who are sharing the truth, like us, like other podcasters who are doing the same thing warning people about yoga, about Christ alignment cards, angel cards, all these other things that seem like they're the good kind of magic, there is no good kind of magic.
Speaker 1:And for someone, especially a Christian, to tell you that, that you can redeem these things, they don't have their biblical facts correct and you should not be following them. You should not be listening or doing what they're doing. And if you are a young believer and you are listening to this podcast right now, I am telling you that if someone is telling you it's okay to do yoga, just call it prayer moves, or do prayer moves or all these other things, if you've come out of the new age and people are telling you to do these things, don't listen to them, because they don't have the spirit of God in them, because if they did, they would be reading their Bibles and they would know that they should not be doing these things, that there is no redeeming things that God has blatantly said do not do. They are abomination to me. So I am telling you to stay away from these practices and people who are trying to get you to do them.
Speaker 2:Well said, dear sister. Thank you, Very well said dear sister, thank you. Very well said, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, there is so much more that could be said about these things, but we are sadly out of time. So, david, thank you so much for coming on today and sharing this with us and sharing your heart and your honesty, sharing the Bible with us. I mean, maybe people aren't in the word, but now they've heard the word, because you shared it boldly, and I pray that it would affect people in a good way and they would start turning from these practices before they get sucked into something that could ruin their lives, ruin their afterlife when they go to their final destination. So thank you for coming on and talking with me about this.
Speaker 2:Amen Thank you for having me, anna, and thank you for what you're doing and amen to what you said about getting in God's Word. Right now I'm reading six chapters a day and it takes me about half an hour a day, and that reads the Bible almost twice in a year. So it's not this insurmountable thing to read God's Word. Get into God's Word, read it, read it, read it, read it. Amen, yeah.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
Speaker 2:You're welcome, thank you.
